Coffee Shops: A Public Debate
Feb 25, 2009 coffee, general food, restaurants
Who knew this would be the one to get me to dust off that seldom used computer keyboard?
A response to Brooke Foster’s, Annoyed, Party of One
Brooke (or anyone else for that matter minus the first paragraph),
I know you. I like you. Alot actually. You and your husband, frankly, rock. You make St. Louis better. But for the sake of debate (I love to argue) I offer a rebuttal:
First, the parented-by-conservatives in me has never been able to remove myself from the fact that at best, a jumbo super latte is like $6.00. Having people hang around for 3 hours when they’ve spent $6.00 doesn’t exactly spell “good business practice”.
Second, as an admitted coffee snob, I actually hate shops with this kind of loitering. Many times I have gone into the Carondelet Kaldi’s to (for once) enjoy my cappuccino “for here.” Met with an endless sea of MacBook* toting students intent on sipping $6.00 lattes for hours, however, I had to take it “to go.” I do not blame Kaldi’s for this in any way. Their Carondelet shop is still the best coffee shop in St. Louis, MO proper, but it is annoying just the same.
Third, I do not know where you live, but I have an idea of where you live. As I don’t see you patronizing the sewer of St. Louis coffee (MoKabe’s**), I offer to Gut Check readers both Hartford and Shaw’s as possibilities. If you, in fact, enjoy coffee, Hartford should probably be avoided anyway because they don’t particularly try to make good coffee. When last I went they had a super-automatic espresso machine. Though, perhaps, that makes it a good solution to studying and paperwork as there won’t be all those pesky coffee lovers to contend with.
Lastly, the $6 latte is not coffee. If the $6 latte is your preferred drink of choice–or worse still you like your $6 latte iced–you could just go get yourself a coffee flavored milk shake at Jack In the Box and do your work there. It’s not a very big fast food restaurant though, so the tables might still be too small to really spread out.
* I tote both a MacBook and an iPhone so I have no room to talk.
** If you’re sitting there thinking, “Fuck that Bill Burge. He doesn’t know what MoKabe’s does for Gay and Lesbian rights in St. Louis!” The reality is I do know what they do. I applaud what they do. But that doesn’t make their shop any cleaner, or their coffee any better. As a coffee shop, it still sucks.
From the mountains of Panama and Ethiopia, to the urban-jungles of Portland and Chicago, journalist Michaele Weissman takes us behind the scenes for a look at the world of third-wave specialty coffee. How did we get to Starbucks, and where we go from here?
February 25th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
There’s the curmudgeon we know and love!
Sometimes I wish I drank coffee more often, however, this is one time I am glad I do not.
February 26th, 2009 at 10:53 am
Foundation Grounds is serving Goshen Coffee, Sweet Art pastries and has friendly competent service. It’s been busy but there has always been a place to sit. Bonus, it’s in downtown Maplewood…..
February 26th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Amen! My personal favorite is going to Panera to eat lunch and finding no tables because more than half of them are taken up by people sipping a drink “working” on a laptop.
Honestly, I found it refreshing in DC that most places turn off the wifi during standard mealtimes so that there are actual tables available for people who are paying customers.
Try working at a library not a for profit establishment!
February 26th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
This was all a plot to get you posting again.
February 27th, 2009 at 7:27 am
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February 27th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Ah, Bill. I actually agree with you on almost every point (I must admit I like a latte every now and then, and when it’s wicked-hot out I *do* get it iced). My problem with This Particular Coffeeshop is not that they discourage lingering outright, but rather that they impose rules that don’t make much sense for their clientele. The “no-fewer-than-two-people” tables are usually empty, because most people go there alone to study or work. If two- to four-tops were sadly trudging away in droves, thanks to all the parties-of-one ganking the big tables, I would totally understand. But in the many times I’ve been there, two is the MOST I’ve seen at any table — and, usually, tables are occupied by just one person.
I mostly wrote that blog to be silly, but I do think that places need to realize — particularly as more people work for themselves (or, heaven forbid, are laid off) — that a lot of modern workers don’t have an office, per se, but rather a series of spaces. I go to a ton of meetings, and I like to stop for coffee afterward to type up notes. I rarely stay for more than an hour, so for me it’s more the principle of the thing. I don’t think it’s a terrible business model to make people feel comfortable and productive, particularly when your coffee shop is half-empty and people aren’t exactly clambering for tables. I also think that I have this overly idealized idea of some [nonexistent?] coffeeshop where everyone respects each other’s space and works on interesting things and orders more coffee if they stay a certain amount of time. Also, I wish unicorns were real.
I too am a coffee snob (I usually go straight for daily brewed or espresso), and for that reason I cannot, will not patronize MoKaBe’s, even though I could probably shout my order from my porch and they’d hear it. I absolutely respect and appreciate the work they do on GLBT issues, too, but that doesn’t change the sad fact that the coffee is capital-T Terrible. I don’t mind Hartford’s coffee, and the people there are wonderful, but I invariably go there at a time when the “play area” in the back is swarming with shouty two-year-olds. It’s nice that they provide that, but it quickly turns my for-here into a to-go.
So, what to do? For now I regularly patronize: Park Avenue Coffee, Foundation Grounds, and Companion in the CWE. I like them all for different reasons. And none of them impose weird rules.
p.s. You, of course, rock too!
February 28th, 2009 at 12:18 am
Bill… Just a short response. While sipping a $6 latte for several hours isn’t great for business in regards to the flow of income, two things come to mind. 1, it’s not all about the coffee anymore. 2, the atmosphere at most
coffee shops is conducive to a student study hall.
It’s called a coffee shoppe not a quick stop.
February 28th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Personally, I only sit at coffee shops with gigi interface connections. Wifi is so yesterday.
March 12th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
I disagree on the worst coffee shop matter, that would be left up to the CWE’s most popping local, I think we all know where I mean… bright orange, annoying little tweens everywhere…
March 13th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
While I’ll agree Coffee Cartel leaves a lot to be desired for this coffee-whore, I wouldn’t call it the worst in town for sure.
March 18th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
I am an employee of Kaldi’s and by no means do I speak on behalf of them. The thing about free wi-fi is that yes, while it serves a demographic well and brings in a collegiate and professional clientel, it can also lead to people taking advantage of the system. I have worked in coffee shops for years and have seen it first hand. We cannot fault a business for their business decisions. Plus, Kaldi’s is not kicking people out.I have wittnessed and know first hand that people leave without placing an order because they do not have a place for their group to sit. As a business, if you have to decide between a customer who has bought a bottomless cup of coffee and has made a four top their daily office, or turning that four top a few times a day for a group of people who are having meals and drinks, what would you choose. As a patron of a coffee shop we should always be courteous and considerate of those around us and those whose space we occupy. I just think it is a shame that a business would have to do this sort of thing.
Also,please consider the side of the business when these kinds of decisions are made. No business, especially one in the service industry wants to make decisions like this. As an employee of Kaldi’s I have been told over and over that customers are first…period. If there is a real problem with this, please approach one of our managers. I assure you that your outlook will change promptly.
Now, as for the $6 latte,that’s another discussion. Quality is worth the money. However, you will not pay $6 for a latte at Kaldi’s unless you are putting way too much stuff into and drinking it with a ton of milk. This is going to tax your taste buds and your health far more quickly than it will tax your wallet. Just go traditional!! Get a nice 6oz. cap with no syrup and you will drink quality, have beautiful art on top, not feel sick and walk away with a few extra bucks. You can even buy two before spending $6.00.
Thanks so much for taking the time to read this!!
PS… If you want to stay longer, buy a small cookie or something… $.99. If you want a place to set up and the are no open tables, sit with some strangers. After all, that is the real coffee shop experience. Meet someone. Talk. Buy someone a doubleshot. Smile a bit.